Devonshire Maul
Recently my family and I visited the old Devonshire Racetrack and found risen out of its ruins a large glass and brick shopping mall in its place.
All around me were people, as if I were walking down 5th Avenue on a Sunday afternoon. People buried in their own lives, some walking casually, some walking as if they couldn’t wait to leave and enjoy the sun-drenched parking surface which beckoned them from every possible vantage point.
Above us were skylights. As a child I used to gaze up at them, peering through the blue haze of cigarette smoke to the partly-cloudy rapture of a July day in Windsor. I used to watch people eating at the restaurant that sat above Simpson’s and I could barely see them through the carcinogenic fog that engulfed them.
That restaurant is long gone, replaced by nothing. Simpson’s is now dressed up to look like the Hudson’s Bay Company. Under my feet is marble, or perhaps its faux marble, its surface buffed to a sheen by countless people dragging their feet.
Is this what has replaced our once grand department stores downtown? Is the food court with its grand skylight and din of a thousand conversations echoing all over the faux marble our new town square?
I’d hate to look around at my town square and see Cinnabon and Orange Julius perforate the atmosphere. The food court at the mall is about as breathtaking as a high school cafeteria.
The way people flock to malls and the sociological ramifications of such behaviour has been analyzed to death, mostly by people wealthier and older than me, so I will remain mute on this subject.
Yet why do we go here? Would our behaviour be different if there were no malls, just a collection of department stores downtown, along with an assortment of restaurants and snack shops?
My biggest fear is that if we did have an incredible, vibrant, healthy downtown, our modern culture would infiltrate it and make it utterly impossible to bear for more than a half an hour at a time, just like the mall is.
Let’s say that I was a genie, and I granted one wish, and that wish was to make Windsor’s downtown core the most commercially viable and healthy place in South-western Ontario. We had no Devonshire Mall, no Tecumseh Mall, no Ambassador Mall not even Central Mall, and everyone went downtown for all their shopping needs.
At first, we would enjoy the downtown that our parents and grandparents remember so fondly. The classy, metropolitan Windsor, the Windsor of the Prince Edward Hotel and of Birk’s. The Windsor of Kresge’s and Smith’s. A Windsor of the Capitol, the Vanity and the Palace. Something that resembled a very stylish time for very stylish people, who wore suits and lovely dresses with hats by Halston when they went downtown.
I picture it falling victim to some dereliction and disrepair as we go through a few economic recessions and downturns here and there, but as a whole, it survives. Now enter my generation, and the generation younger than me, the children of the 80s and 90s.
What would we do with downtown? Would we continue to shop in the same stores that our parents frequented, or would we throw them all away? I cannot remember any store surviving in the mall for more than ten years let alone 50 or 60 years as they did downtown. Why is my generation so quick to throw things away?
Would Smith’s be trendy, or would it be replaced by an Old Navy by now? Would we have lunch counters or would they be replaced by countless, nameless fast food joints? Would that be the downtown we wanted, a collection of streets lined with chain stores?
We need to ask ourselves, do we want to invite the “anchor” stores downtown and deal with all of the chain store stowaways that inevitably come with them, or do we want a sort of exclusive downtown, where mostly locally ran businesses ply their trades in the wilderness of the economy of Windsor.
If we did have what we wanted in our downtown, would we screw it up?
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Nice think-piece Brendan. I too miss the “old” downtown. I’ve never liked malls, and If “big box” developments do put malls out of business, I’m afraid I won’t be able to shed a tear. As for the question you pose about the chances of us screwing up a rejuvenated downtown, I wonder if we can use Royal Oak, MI, as a guide. Their “downtown” has been known for its independent businesses in the past, but I’ve read that that has changed a bit as chains have moved in, causing rents to increase to the point that the independents couldn’t afford it anymore. I don’t know what the answer is, but I sure would like to see more retail in the core. It’s where I live, and it’s where I want to shop.
Every generation reminisces about the so-called ‘good times’. I’m sure that when “Kresge’s and Smith’s” were downtown”, there were ‘old-timers’ reminiscing about stores from their generation that were long gone.
Dolson Chen of the Windsor Star in today’s paper is wondering the same thing; Late-night encounters offer food for thought
http://tiny.cc/BNbNi
“I’ve been living in downtown Windsor for about a year now. Lately, I’ve been wondering why.
I fantasize about suburban living. A modern house with a garage. Finished basements and security alarms.
Quiet, sterile neighbourhoods where everybody’s in bed by 11 p.m.”
The Maul like a cancer grows, gorging on flushed swollen cars and cards of credit.
I too wonder why bother living downtown. It is more of hindrance than it is to having amenities.
Vincent is right however but that doesn’tmean throw in the towel and build elsewhere. One of the problems is that our taxes for small business is ridiculously high. Then you have bylaw enforcement that just doesn’t make sense, add in red tape, a downtown surrounded by low income and it is a recipe for what we have today.
If we had proper streetscaping, zero tolerance police enforcement in the entertainment district, tax incentives, the ability for the DWBIA to do their job without city hall (read political) interference it might turn the corner.
But until city hall reigns in the unbriddled retail sprawl on the perepheral of the city (without the excuse the LaSalle or Tecumseh will build it) then it is a non-starter.
Any reason as to why so many people are moving ot these burbs? The #1 reason I hear is TAXES! #2 perceived safety. #3 what does Windsor offer me?
Take a look at our neighbrouhoods and those in the burbs…night and day difference. Where is that investment in neighbourhoods again? Oh yeah a methadone clinic! Yay for Windsor!
Forgot to add. I wouldn’t mind any chain store downtown. Heck Orange Julius, A&W, NY Fries…who cares? Let’s bring in Danier Leather, Aeropostale, Bowring, anything…it beats what is mostly there now. Rub-n-tugs, crappy kiddy bars (notice not much for adults), dollar stores! Whoopee!
The best reason to live downtown is because it’s close to the tunnel. Theres a metropolis 20 times the size of Windsor right next door! Windsor’s practically a gated community for Detroit.
I’m not too keen on the idea of “major” anchors downtown. Maybe the chainlets as I believe Mark called them, but not Sears or Walmart. Downtown is supposed to be where you go for that one special product or service that you can’t get anywhere else. OK why do I have a feeling I just opening this up to a myriad of wisecracks…
But take the dining experience for example. Whoever goes downtown to eat dinner at Burger King?
The enduring wisdom of Mom & Pop
http://crosscut.com/2009/09/03/mossback/19211/
A book review from a blogger at Seattle Public Library;
A few opening paragraphs:
A new book on family-owned retailers provides a lens on the future of Seattle’s neighborhood development. It’s not just a matter of retail style; it’s about values.
By Knute Berger
One of the attractions of urban density is the ability for everyone to walk to the store, to have one’s commercial needs met within a few busy blocks. We all like the idea of living near a great cafe, a small grocer stocked with locally grown produce, maybe even a shoe store, pet shop, or bike repair place.
But it’s often easier to build dense housing than it is to nurture grassroots retail. The ecosystems for housing and retail sometimes don’t match: Even people who live in walkable neighborhoods find that the variety of nearby shops won’t suit their needs, so they might walk to the corner convenience store for a quart of milk, but they still “need” to drive to one or two or three larger grocery stores to get the variety and prices they want.
And many small businesses are still heavily reliant on street parking, which is now being rationed and comes at a premium. Some businesses need to draw on a city-wide customer base to survive (I doubt if Archie McPhee’s lives on foot traffic alone for its toys). If cars are squeezed out, a shop can lose much of its customer base, and can’t necessarily (if ever) bridge the gap until a promised influx of local condo-dwelling newcomers arrives.
New development also can drive out many of the existing small retailers. Gentrification is part of it: Developers tend to build for higher-end residential customers, but local retailers can’t afford the new ground-level rents and they might not offer products and services that the gentrifers are looking for. A Southeast Asian market might be dislocated by a vegan donut shop. Or new residents might simply be out of sync with old uses. I remember when the Sightline Institute’s Alan Durning lived without his car for a year, he analyzed the retailers within walking distance of his home in North Seattle and discovered a huge percentage of them were auto shops…..”
A very good read!
Gentrification happens in every city everywhere… sometimes for the better, sometimes not. One should not make a statement that shopping at independent stores located downtown is better than shopping at chain stores located within a mall, because this is a really just a matter of preference. In a depressed economy such as that of Windsor’s one should hope that any business which chooses to locate there does well and helps bring other businesses to the location. Sure there are a lot of bad things associated with national retailers and big box stores, but there are a lot of good things that come as well. An independent store would more than likely not pay more than minimum wage, provide benefits, or have a large staff … all found at most chain stores.
I feel that this post is purely a personal want, rather than that of bettering the community as a whole. Does one want a healthy local economy with many employed people earning a living and spending that money back in the community, or does that person just want better stores located close to their home? We do not all have to like visiting the local mall, or do we even have to go there, but understanding that fighting the big box retailer can do more harm than good. Would you rather see a Gap, Sears, Walmart or dollar stores lining the streets of downtown, or would one rather see empty storefront after empty storefront?
this is a pretty complicated issue and would love to weigh in but i may write a few pages if were to do so. instead i would like to dispel the myth that downtown is simply a bunch of kiddie bars and rub and tugs. people have been over using those phrases for years. there are a lot of empty store fronts. yes. there are a lot of businesses, lawyers offices etc as well. there are a lot of restaurants. and yes there are a lot of bars. many of which cater to an older crowd. the number of kiddie bars, that term is both inflammatory and prejudice, is far outnumbered by bars that are suited for older 30+ crowds and not young Americans. there is a vibrancy and there are tons of events, shows, etc that go on constantly. their constant lack of support is partly due to this false image of kiddie bars and rub and tugs. nobody says ……downtown is just filled with great local produce at the best area farmers market, tons of great art shows at many local establishments, some of the best restaurant selections for a city of this size anywhere in canada, week after week of events and shows and festivals all summer long, great unique places like phog (best live music venue in canada) etc etc . point is that those things far outweigh the bullshit kiddie bars and rub and tugs but never seem to be at the forefront of quick and irresponsible descriptions of downtown. dolsen chen for example is amazingly short sighted and clueless. would he rather go to a wendys at 2 am in forest glade and get stabbed. that happened and happens all the time but it never has the context of ‘in downtown’. how can we ever recognize the potential of downtown if at every turn we’re dubbing it as a shit hole. its not.
Personally, of everything said above, I would like one really good hardware store. I have the downtown farmer’s market, which am I really utilizing, Food Basucks, The Bargain Shop for cheap boxers and socks and other everyday items and two pharmacies. I miss Turek’s, so Henry’s has to do.
Utilizing the bus, there’s Market Square, Canada Salvage and other shops on Ottawa street and if all else fails the Maul but that is rare. I order a lot of my other clothes on line and have it delivered to were I work.
Before Lakeshore and other suburban towns grew, the Maul sucked the life out them also and only now are things coming back to them.
A few years ago, a store in Victoria Park Place besides selling convenience food type goods with some fresh fruit and vegetables, also sold some hardware items but it was also a depot for Home Hardware and Sears, you could order from each of their catalogs and have it delivered to the store, I almost had it made then.
I’m old enough to remember and experience the “old” downtown but you have to remember that after the war and as this city grew, downtown to some was a good trip and the only place to really shop then. Some travelled a good distance in the city to get to the “old market” it just wasn’t the people in the “core.” Or if they had a car, shop in Detroit at the new malls there or go to London for the so called ‘better stuff,” that they couldn’t buy in Windsor.
I agree with Kevin W and rino. I pay the kiddie bars no mind and focus on all the good stuff that the core offers. I like the Milk Bar Cafe, The Phog have had some great times and some long night conversations at both and I like their mix of ages that they draw.
When and if I go to the Maul, I see hurried people, frustrated people, people lost amongst the million of baubles and stuff to buy wandering relentlessly from store to store and then i see the happy ones that got what they wanted and more. Salvation? Redemption? I feel sometimes that they are experiencing a religious experience walking in a trance with their eyes and mind filled with the cacophonous sound of consumerism.
Dolsen Chen as rino pointed out could have found the same types in Forest Glade, South Windsor, along Huron Line with about the same odds of finding trouble especially at the hour he was out and about. It’s just not downtown that experiences this situation. Maybe we should say, in the Community of Forest Glade there was a stabbing last night, or it happened in South Windsor etc. etc, would people move out of those neighbourhoods to sprawlsville then. You get the same late night/way to early in the morning types in Lakeshore, Tecumseh, LaSalle and Kingsville and on and on. They just don’t have the stigma of the Windsor Star writing about it. As far as I am concerned the media (print, television etc.) in Windsor treat “downtown” as the wiping boy for all the ails of our society.
How many grow-ops have they really busted in the core compared to burbs and surrounding towns?
I’ve lived in the core for the last twenty years and I really don’t have an answer on what it would take to revitalize a heart on life support. But one thing I have noticed about Windsor and this area, we are always ten to twenty years behind what the rest of the world is doing or other cities. It’s as if we live in vortex that time forgot. Is it because of the insulating factor of our once great assembly lines that we didn’t have to look any farther, that manna flowed everwise, the gravy was always there and television kept selling the same bill of goods and telling us that we are doing the right thing. I really don’t know.
I think it will take several generations to turn Windsor around, to purge the generations that are here now and their mind think.
But there is a secret in retail, that mauls and big boxer outlets do die and are dying very fast in the United States, the cathedrals of consumerism are being abandon, as a religion they are failing. The holy promise of the Credit Card Creed has failed and returned no satisfaction to the followers.
Oh, but eventually the kiddie bars will move to the newer towns and burbs as they grow and the kids don’t want to drive to far from home and the problem will move. Be patient, it’s only a matter of time.
That’s not true Rino. I live downtown and as a mid thirty year old I can tell you there aren’t many places for me to go for entertainment and I have a very open mind when it comes to music and/or venue.
If downtown didn’t have so many ignorant kids wanting to fight, swear scream and confront at any given time downtown just might be able to attract other things than the lowest common denominator drinking bar.
That is not to say that there are decent establishments, like The Pour house, Beer Market, your bar The Boom Boom Room, Mick’s “Irish” pub. But that is about all.
Where is the shopping for clothes, house goods, garden items, flower shops, bakery, deli, ice cream store etc? There just isn’t much and one reason is Windsor sold out seniors.
They were enticed to live downtown in the ’80s and then were sold out for bars in the mid 90s from Hurst who looked at the quick buck Windsor made. Francis has allowed that to continue.
I for one have walked in Walkerville and not felt threatened. The same in Riverside and even Sandwish but walking downtown on a Friday, Saturday night and I am ready for battle because that is what these kids who can’t holdtheir liquor want to do. The police sit idly by until they can whack someone. As a person who lives downtown and frequents the establishments above I see it regularly.
Yes, there are some great venues, fantastic art shows but that isn’t near enough! The downtown in order to survive (and not look so disgustingly cheap in every wa. My gosh, where is the architecture and design?) needs to cater to residents as well as visitors to the core and truth be told (ask a lot of residents downtown. I know I have asked at least 100 of them) what they want or need or if they are happy downtown? Almost all said there is a lot missing. Many more said downtownisn’t what they thought it was, and still others said if tehy could move without losing their shirts they would.
If there is so much good about downtown (ther eis good but not sugar coated to protect your business) then why doesn’t downtown or the DWBIA blitz the city with the news of how spectacular it is? Where’s campaign to change the image?
I’m not trying to bust yoru balls here I am just throwing a lot of the reality into it. And I forone wish we had all bar owners as committed and invest in their bars like you have. Especially with meeting with residents and caring about those who do live downtown.
Rino, I love living downtown. I agree with most of what you said above but the overemphasis on bars and clubs is a problem. It is not that there are too many bars and clubs but more that there is not enough family programming, especially in the evening and early night hours on weekends.
Walking the streets of downtown with the kids on most weekend evenings feels uncomfortable. The streets are overrun by the bar crowd. While I have no problem with the bar scene late at night an effort needs to be made to reclaim the evening and early night for all types of people and activities. We have some great assets like the palace, the capital theatre and waterfront park that we can use for this purpose. But we have to honestly accept the problem.
Well I have to agree with Rino. Kiddie bars do not rule - there is an abundant variety and wonderful things to participate in. He is right — the downtown farmers markets is amazing — it will grow and get better - but only if the people of this community participate. Come to the market, have fun, be part of your community and please stop and thank the volunteers that put it together for you. Oh, by the wya, for it to survive the vendors need you to buy - it’s worth it - local, fresh and seasonal.
The residents have the ability to change and improve and create what they want downtown — that is if they step up to the plate, participate, contribute - stop the complaining - do something!
Thanks for supporting the market Rino and participating.
Dave take up the challenge!
I really doubt that when I’m old and grey that I’ll recall fondly Old Navy or Walmart. Those old department stores have a sort of monolithic quality to them.
Very true, however, that everyone pines for the old days, but sadly with our throw away culture, and the death of many of our institutions, nothing is constant anymore, so no fondness develops in the mind for current places. Going shopping used to be fun, used to be an event. Now it has all the fun and excitement of a root canal.
It doesnt help either that these big box stores and malls have no real character or charm to them, so they arent even worth remembering anyway.
The biggest problem with this whole situation is that downtown residents don’t have the disposable income as is reprented by persons in the burbs. A rejuvenation of the downtown with an influx of stores/shops/restaurants/bars/etc can’t be sustained by the local crowd and the few who venture downtown from elsewhere. Again, what is being put forward is a “build it and they will come”. That’s not going to happen while there is a lack of ample and appropriate (free) parking for the suburbanites to flock to downtown. When I can drive and park at the “maul” and have available 100 stores. that is more cost effective to me in this economic time.
I do venture downtown for specific reasons. To visit my friend’s restaurant (Biscuits and Gravy), for an event (Buskers), or for a service located there (passport), but seldom other times. That’s the reality.
The Future of Shopping Malls: An Image Essay
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives//008328.html
Mall culture in the United States — at least as we know it — is coming to an end. Last month, the fall of Steve & Barry’s became the next addition to a series of recent retailer bankruptcies we’ve been witnessing across the nation. This trend is likely to continue, as the U.S. economic downturn causes people to reduce their trips to stores and to shop less, forcing more shops to close and leaving malls deserted.
According to an article that ran in The Economist at the end of 2007:
The Economist article http://tiny.cc/xrjzB
In the past half century … [malls] have transformed shopping habits, urban economies and teenage speech. America now has some 1,100 enclosed shopping malls, according to the International Council of Shopping Centres. Clones have appeared from Chennai to Martinique. Yet the mall’s story is far from triumphal. Invented by a European socialist who hated cars and came to deride his own creation, it has a murky future. While malls continue to multiply outside America, they are gradually dying in the country that pioneered them.
Deadmalls, a site dedicated to these failing malls, tracks closings and developments, and even allows you to locate malls that are dying in your own town.
http://www.deadmalls.com/
I agree with Brendan that shopping isn’t viewed as the event it once was. But I wonder if part of that is due to the fact that nowadays most people can no longer afford themselves the time to make it such an event. Many insist on cramming everything they can into their already overflowing schedules that there’s hardly the time any more to dedicate to shopping as before. People want to get in, find what they’re looking for and get out because they have to be somewhere else 15 minutes ago.
Of course this phenomenon could also be viewed as the result of the big box stores, malls, drive-thrus, etc. They made it easier to buy what was needed so there was more time to do other things.
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
I dunno, Hez. Anytime I shop at Walmart or the Maul I end up spending more time and also more money on dumb stuff than I expected to. When I shop at Canada Salvage I buy the furniture stripper I came for then go directly home, down about twenty minutes and out of pocket $10. I think the super malls and plazas are a false economy sometimes.
LOS, I think you are looking to the future through the review mirror. Have you noticed that with every step towards recovery in the economy the oil price rises? Many of us believe the era of cheap energy is over. In my opinion, looking forward it is walkable communities, transit stations and bike path networks that people will look for not line of sight parking spots.
Edwin, Please don’t get me wrong. I would love to see the downtown revitalized. I’d prefer to see streets restricted to only pedestrian traffic. I think the concept works great using Jacques Cartier Square in Montreal as an example. People flock there because there is so much happening.
We need a better (faster and organized) transit system along with a lot of other things. Who’s going to support enhancement initiatives? Can you see a Restoration Hardware in the downtown? Who would support it? Not those who live downtown now. It would have to be the suburbanites. But when are those transit improvements coming? Like Hez said, I have stuff to do. I can’t sit waiting for a bus to meander all over the city before it gets to where I want to go. Right now it has to be the car, and the downtown must learn to compete with those who are taking their customers away (malls, big box, other cities).
LOS I would suggest that from a business sense we are talking about what to do with two assets where one is a cashcow and the other a star.
The car-suburban infrastructure is the cashcow. It is in a mature to declining stage. It is very profitable but with no growth opportunity.
The star is the core-pedestrian infrastructure. It is the future. It has plenty of growth opportunity but is in the infancy stage.
The recommended strategy in this situation is to milk money from the cashcow to invest in the star. Investment in the cashcow should be minimal, while investment in the star should be aggressive to capture the growth opportunity.
We have plenty of parking downtown. Maybe not well labelled and not free like the mall but there is plenty of parking. What we need is better transit, more bike parking and paths, more public spaces and activities, and a better variety of businesses. This is what we should invest in not more parking.
dave and edwin……… i am not propping up downtown solely to help promote my business. my business speaks for itself. i live downtown. i have had three businesses downtown. i hang out downtown and thrive on downtown. by saying there are simply not enough of the cool things going on is tough to swallow because these good things going on all have trouble sustaining themselves. the market, while being amazingly run and opened so quickly, still has trouble getting people to come out. when restaurants run promos like eat your city by windsor eats, they all had lower than expected turn out. the fringe fest has horrible turn out. etc etc etc. all the good businesses downtown have trouble paying their rent from month to month. why? places like the palace exist and are great family places especially at such a great value compared to silver city etc. but why aren’t the seats filled. its not the mayor’s fault. its not planning committee’s fault. its not the DWBIA’s fault. its not the DRA fault. its the people’s fault. OUR FAULT! keep using excuses like parking, violence, image, etc and of course downtown will never move forward. the reality is i don’t feel safe in other parts of windsor at 2 am where there are bars spilling out. just look to the east end. how many police calls are made to east end bars. more than downtown. i am going by knowledge not speculation. of course there is a bar district downtown but thats not a the only thing down here. i’m not saying that downtown is where it should be, it needs a lot of work but fear mongering and exaggerations about violence, etc impedes that progress more than anything else. the problem with downtown lies in the perception of the residents of windsor. plain and simple. its not beauty or building restoration, just look at how ugly walker road and the mall are. can you get any uglier. windsor’s blue collar wealthy have come to rely on excessive commercialism as their pastime. going to the mall, costco, walmart are what people do and thats where they will go. they make excuses galore for reasons why not to come downtown but most are just that, excuses. we need more retail for sure but there is so much more going on downtown. edwin mentioned family centric things to do need to be more prevelant. i always agree with that but in this case what would you like to see? i have been to toronto, montreal, and just recently chicago with my kids. aside from the obvious and very expensive things like museums etc i don’t find any of those cities offering more family oriented entertainment. windsor, especially downtown has tons to offer for family fun. here are some of the things that my boys love to do. some example….. bike rides along the riverfront. stopping along the way at scuptures, fountains, playgrounds etc. we walk downtown and come for dinner and then go see movies at the palace very affordable. in the summer there are too many festivals to mention and in the winter you can come down to skate at the square and go for hot chocolate at any of the downtown coffee shops. the art gallery ran free children’s workshops all summer long every sunday afternoon. the library often runs programs geared toward young kids and older ones as well. there are great shops like rogue comics. i take jack there and he loves it. they have a big box of used toys that are worth 15-20 bucks but they sell them for as little as2 bucks. when is the last time you’ve taken the family downtown, had something to eat, participated in an event and gone for a walk along the river. why not? is it nicer at the mall? the proximity to detroit is a huge draw as well. we recently went to a tigers game. from the gate of the park to the parking lot to the border to my front porch was less than 25 minutes. world class sporting event 25 minutes away. the list is endless when considering all that. what downtown windsor lacks and why people choose to shop at places like costco and walmart are only faults of our own. we, the people, the consumers need to support downtown. when something needs rehabilitation you need to give it more attention and support. people need to go downtown and spend money even when there may be more convenient and easier places or options. there needs to be an effort. we have an image problem and when we continue to focus on the negative that will never change. we need to address the negative but we also need to focus on the positive and try to expand on the things that are working downtown.
Well said, Rino.
As I wrote on my own blog - downtown is what you make it - in both senses of the phrase.
I don’t like going to bars, but I do enjoy lounges. I enjoy the variety of restaurants - chinese, indian, lebonese, and canadian. I enjoy the waterfront.
Shopping? Retail throughout Windsor is lacking. Period. The mall? I hate it. And don’t go. Costco? Sorry, can’t beat the savings on a tight budget!
The only time downtown becomes even remotely “threatening” is after 1 a.m. During the day - what is the excuse?
Dave writes:
If there is so much good about downtown (ther eis good but not sugar coated to protect your business) then why doesn’t downtown or the DWBIA blitz the city with the news of how spectacular it is? Where’s campaign to change the image?
Sorry Dave - this over dependence of “government” to do it for you is the cause of many of our issues.
What is stopping you from promoting downtown?
This isn’t to say we should not discuss the negatives; but we should also be discussing the successes - and there are many.
Changes to downtown are INCREMENTAL. They will not happen overnight and take YEARS to reverse decline.
The ingredients are all there. The only thing lacking is resident support.
And Downtown is not the only jurisdiction without retail.
Despite the successes in Walkerville, there is a complete lack of “affordable” retail. Ottawa Street is in decline. Erie Street is largely restaurants.
Where is all the retail?
I think the issue is far larger than simply downtown.
one point……chris s………. you mention how retail is lacking. that is true. no doubt. but there are many glimmers of hope and stories of people going out on a limb and trying to bring good things to windsor. the problem is that they need your support regardless if you can find it cheaper elsewhere. you mention costco as being great for budget conscious people but people have to realize that spending a bit more is essential to the life of small businesses. tureks could not compete with chains such as henrys for price so they needed people’s support. they didn’t get it. people need to support these sort of small businesses even at a cost to them. thats part of the work. there are much greater rewards that come from that sort of support than simply financial savings. i’m not rich and i also fall victim to the low prices of evil walker road but i have tried and am getting much better at looking inward and downtown and around town to smaller places locally owned for all i need. there is an onus on all of us to make windsor better in all ways. and we have to act appropriately whether its cheaper elsewhere, easier elsewhere, and not convenient for us. effort on all our parts is what will drive change as a whole.
here’s a follow up to my comments. won’t be long winded like my other posts. simple question…..how many people who posted here about downtown went to the downtown farmers market today? we can write and discuss until we’re blue in the face but action and support is what’s needed. if you didn’t go, you should. you all have to eat, you should at least eat well. spend some money, buy some great fresh produce, bread etc. and oh yeah, get some delicious organic soup while you’re there as well.
Rino, me and the missus have missed two out of ten weekends (both times with good reason). When we do go, we bring home at least 2-3 bags full of goodies, plus breakfast and coffee at Cafe 401 booth. Many of us do put our money where our mouth is. I see lots of personalities from the local blogosphere there every week, including Mr Bradley today.
And yes, Mark, Richard’s oatmeal raison cookies are to die for. Them and a tall glass of cold milk.
Just got back! Let’s see, Potato Cauliflower soup from the Black Bean, fresh Blackberry jam, Thibert’s Oatmeal Raison cookies..the best, tea from Taloola, yellow tomatoes, cauliflower, apples, Concord grapes, apple pie, all from Koehn’s. Muffin and coffee from the Pause Cafe. And several good conversations with the people I am meeting there on a regular basis!
And, and, and, a absolutely beautiful gorgeous day to be in the market!
you guys should try the flour from chana. they have had luke warm sales. mainly because people don’t think of buying flour at the market. its really good and makes great bread.
Loved the cauliflower soup today Rino. Major props.
Oh, and I agree with your posts above. We had a fantastic night out downtown last night. Movie at the art gallery, a pint at Phog and a walk around on a warm night. Lots of people out. Saw friends. Can’t beat it.
For clarity’s sake, I’d just like to let everyone know that I like inner cities that are little rough around the edges. Windsor is sort of there, we’ve just torn out and down, or never built any large, interesting, fire escape and brick shelled buildings to make it look very asthetically pleasing.
Inner cities are supposed to be rough, supposed to be hectic and a little crazy. Its only when two things at the opposite end of the spectrum happen when we have to worry.
One, when it gets hollowed out by white flight and white fright of the inner city, or by over gentrification. See Greenwich Village, or Hell’s Kitchen in New York, or Shepherd’s Bush or Hammersmith in London for a prime example of that. Once you drive rents up too high, you make it impossible for real people to live there.
Second, when a downtown core gets disneyfied. When it gets too polished and you end up rubbing too much of the grime and grit off of it, because that grime and grit and loud people and obnoxiousness that Dalson Chen find so disturbing and frightening make an inner city what it truly is : a big huge mess, but a glorious mess.
nice point brendan. very well put.
The last thing I want downtown is the gated community mentality which seems is what the ‘canal” development might deliver. I live in a gated community … it’s called a condo and it is downtown!
I agree with you also Brendan, cities have to be edgy, hectic and mentally dysfunctional … that is were the creativity, the innovation and great dialogues are developed, not in the bucolic settings of the burbs!
i love the term disneyfied. i have been to way too many places that are just too perfect and bland because of it. that is a great term for it.
You can plan and create an atmosphere that prevents disneyfication.
Other downtowns have sign guidelines and design guidelines that are separate from the rest of the city.
No backlit signs a la Pizza Pizza
No neon lights
No strobe lights
That alone forces business owners to come up with creative attractive signs if they want them to attract interest. Those backlit signs are an easy way out for business owners who sometimes don’t know any better. If you notice this type of signage throughout other downtowns, its not an accident, it was a requirement.
(It also mitigates the damage that the rub and tugs do with their stupid ass mannequins, neon flashing lights etc.)
It is bizarre that We can’t even get this on the agenda for our downtown.
Right on Mark. Where are OUR guidelines?
Rino points out that is it US who need to make the changes. By US I believe he means Windsorites to which I agree. What is it about Windsorites apathy to their own city; to allow it to decay, become bland, and then celebrate it’s demise?
A great point was observed above as to the neighbourhoods downtown and how they are truly not viable at this point. Our downtown is ringed by low income who (as pointed out) may not be able to afford any retail that may come downtown.
How do we change this? How can we have areas of higher incomes, areas of lower income and areas that have a mix of both? I believe it starts with investing in neighbourhoods (yes Chris, I am relying on gov’t for this because ths is what gov’ts need to do) perhaps this is what the mayors Canal proposal does. I am not sure but it may.
However, we all know that we must have guidelines in place to not allow more of our heritage to be squandered for short gain. Plans need to be implemented and not shelved for years then dusted off and used only to be 10-15 years behind the times.
I have stated before the things I believe are great downtown but I refuse to put on rose-coloured glasses for the sake of it. Nothing like hyping up an area only to findit is nothing as it says it is (who hasn’t had that problem before). I would rather state the points that are true and let others make their own decisions. The fact of the matter is we need to make downtown or any other BIA a place where people WANT to live and not just a place to grab a cup of coffee and flee.
By the way the Chana flour is oustanding for baking sweets as well.
Take up the challenge? I believe I have done that and more but one must also live their life as well. I do what I can.