“Are we negotiating? Always” or No more “Dire Straits”
Greenlink is dead but look at what is going to rise in its place. Its gonna be very interesting to see how certain the mayor haters spin this into a negative. Lets see (why say you want one thing when you really want another? you sold out greenlink? ) ITS NEGOTIATING BABY.
Tunnel Plaza, no more lineups of cars blocking Goyeau businesses. Car Cueing area and landscaping
- as an aside. Maybe the closure of Goyeau will make people understand how important it is to keep Ouellette open as it is the only straight through access to the river from Glengarry/Aylmer to Bruce Street (We’re talking 8 blocks)
- Possible only negative is blank walls on Wyandotte which might affect businesses on other side
Walker Road
- Make it look nice as an entry to the city from the 401 and from the airport. Does this mean we’re burying the overhead powerlines? Bike lanes from end to end? woohoo. Complete the street!!!!
Money for nothing and chicks for free
- I guess thats what the deal is for the city property, no more saying those pesky legal fees were wasted.
- That aint working, thats the way to do it!
Lauzon
Environmental assessment and transportation. Interesting. Sounds like a way to access airport lands long term
What are you gonna say, it was a good day for Windsor today
The only friendly jab I’d give, is why didn’t we negotiate for the province to take over the expressway and make it as pedestrian friendly and crossable as the DRIC Road?
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I guess as a P.S. is that I never agreed with the means, but I guess the ends justify those them
Sorry to burst your bubble Mark, but plenty of these projects have been on the books for years. It was a bad day for Windsor. We could have had much more. Way more.
The Province and the Feds were going to fund most of the expansion of the Tunnel Plaza years ago. It’s not really a new announcement. But declining traffic volumes delayed the need for the expansion. I can’t recall the last time the tunnel has been backed up during morning rush.
After 9/11 the Province was willing to spend $300 million on interim infrastructure improvements including extending Lauzon Parkway to the 401 (it should go to Highway 3). That road should have been completed by now. That was one of the recommendations by then Traffic Commissioner John Tofflemire, who was ridiculed by Council (and who left for greener pastures shortly thereafter). How do you market an airport as a cargo hub when said airport has no direct access tot he 401?
Widening Walker Road has been on the books for some 15 years now. But the City kept putting it off. I guess it’s nice that the taxpayers of the Province of Ontario will be paying for part of upgrading that road (hopefully the City will upgrade the Provincial and Cabana intersection before that project starts).
We could have had much more if we decided to negotiate from the beginning. Instead we decided to fight from the beginning. After 9/11 the Province was willing to spend $300 million. We get $78 million some 8 or so years later. That is some excellent negotiating on the part of Council.
The province and Feds pulled the 30 million designated for the tunnel expansion over 3 years ago and used it on the 401. That money was long gone before Mayor declared WAR. (Maybe thats one reason he declared war)’
Personally, I wouldn’t have declared War that day at the Holiday I would have declared VICTORY with conditions on the Province’s surrender,.
Doesn’t matter how long widening walker was on books for, there was no money for it.
How do you know how much more we could have had? why is your crystal ball better than someone elses? I don’t like the means but I’m sure glad its over and we can declare VICTORY
It’s a Pyrrhic Victory Mark as Vincent said. Just waiting for the sound bite and the spin that Edgar puts on this.
Based on the tone and number of articles including an Editorial in the Windsor Star, the spin is in overdrive.
Ahhh, but it started here first
Victory is ours! Now I can get out to the big-box badlands faster
Since go it has been a political farce. Will it be a victory when the W/E Parkway ends at E.C. Row to service the twinning of the Ambassador Bridge and not the DRIC bridge which will likely die a slow taxpayer funded death?
Eddie needs good news to keep his job. Spanky needs to lock-up his riding so that when he is made Ontario Liberal leader he will have a seat at Queen’s Park.
Call it what it is, money that doesn’t really exist for projects that were off the radar announced at a time of best political expediency.
Who really won?
We definitely won by virtue of not having to hear about their petty feuding anymore!!!
I like fixing walker as well, maybe I’ll be able to cut over there to bike ride north south
Do you think that fixing Walker would include putting in bike lanes? They certainly left them out of the semi-recent construction project on the Walker underpass.
I was told that the parts of walker by the underpass are bike lane ready but they were not installed because they didn’t lead to anything. However, you made a valid point to me the other day that no bike lane anywhere leads to anything.
I’m only hoping here, just like I’m hoping your new association becomes the tipping point of awareness and support.
Getting bikes through the Walker / Grand Marais intersection is vastly safer and more convenient than it ever was. Could it be better? Probably. However the death trap for cyclists at South Cameron and Howard is a much higher priority.
On another topic, it is awfully tiresome to hear about “consultant taxes” in virtually the same breath as “overlarge government” and “overpaid civil servants”. If you want to have your roads designed safely, it costs money - either accepting that engineers and lawyers on the city payroll will make over $100,000 or that the city will hire consultants to do it and avoid payroll taxes.
There are actually great bike trails on both sides of the Walker Rd. underpass, with a multi-use trail the dumps people out onto the sidewalk of the underpass. I wonder whether the gigantic sidewalk there is supposed to be designated as multi-use? Unfortunately the multi-use trail there has zero signage, and you wouldn’t know it was there just driving past it.
Either way, the city’s Bicycle Use Master Plan called for bike lanes along there, so it should have gotten them when the construction was done. I’m hoping that the new construction along Walker will include bike lanes, but I’m not entirely sure it will.
This is not a victory. It’s no more a victory than the armistice signed at the end WW1. This whole debacle is simply the costly conclusion to a fight that didn’t have to happen. Far too many taxpayers dollars spent to fuel the egos of politicians. If we are to believe that the only way to get the right solution for Windsorites and the Canadian economy is to pour millions of dollars into the hands of lawyers and consultants, threaten litigation, and use west-end residents as pawns, then it is a very sad day.
Why should it cost Windsor taxpayers millions to have politicians do the right thing?
Moreover, Windsorites must be freed from the insidious burdern of “the consultant tax”. Nearly 10% of the total cost of every infrastructure project goes to lawyers and consultants. I don’t know about you but I’ve never seen a lawyer with a shovel. These are non-value added expenditures.
We must move to limit their impact on our taxes. Eliminate them where we can, ensure that when these dollars must be spent, every effort is made to keep this work in our community. We do have lawyers in Windsor. We also have a University filled with great minds and talent waiting to be tapped.
As for the ancillary agreements such as Walker road and tunnel plaza expansion. I see no reason why these couldn’t have been presented as shovel-ready projects under the federal infrastructure package. To imply that these projects could never have been funded, but for the tax money that Eddie used to threaten the province, is simply a way to continue building the myth that Eddie actually acheived something positive for this city.
If I was a Toronto lawyer I would cutting a cheque to Eddie’s re-election campaign. It’s the gift that keeps on giving.
Nicely stated Jody!
Your points are valid. However, it was the province that told the Mayor to come up with a proposal, hence the Schwartz plan.
It was the Feds that pulled the 30 million in tunnel plaza funding (albeit because it seemed Windsor Dithered on the Plaza
Yeah, the system sucks, but Windsor can’t unilaterally change it. We would just fall on our sword while other communities reaped the benefits.
Windsor received the most infrastructure funding per capita already. I think its presumptuous to assume there was simply a blank check waiting for whatever projects we submitted beyond that.
People always tell me they don’t like politics. I was told, once you have two people in a room, you have politics. Like it or not, its the world we live in, and there is no Utopian area that is exempt. Actually, if you can think of one, name it
Do not take the above as a disagreement Jody, only some statements.
I hate the consultation tax that you stated well as it is simply a way to funnel money to cronies who then a small percentage back to the political party that paid it to them.
Our mayor started off his career doing deals with Dr. Strausser at Tim Hortons. Now we have a capital theater awaiting appellate court ruling. I too long for the Tim Hortons Meetings of yesteryear
Victory? Hardly.
I wouldn’t want to be biking on Walker Rd when the trucks from Eddie’s cargo hub dream are screaming toward EC Row.
“No trucks on EC Row” was the battle cry. There’ll be little else with the cargo dream and Lauzon extension to the 401. Sell out.
Pollution causes the highest rates of cancer, heart disease, and respiratory problems. Don’t forget that aircraft produce more particulate matter pollution than trucks. And a few extra yards of buffer doesn’t equal more tunneling. Sell out.
Tunnel plaza expansion? Where’s the traffic?
Who owns the land around the current plaza? Land that will be expropriated at inflated rates. I wonder if Eddie will declare a conflict when the decisions are being made in that regard. Isn’t a very close friend the property owner? I believe that is the case.
No. This isn’t a victory for the reasons Vincent and Jody have articulated. It is more of the “business as usual” mentality that has depressed Windsor and which disuades investment here.
This isn’t a victory. A good litmus test to the level of victory is to look at all the spin doctors trying to make this into a victory. The wheels are spinning but we’re not getting anywhere.
This was not a victory.
…but Henderson and Vander Doelen say it’s a victory? Doesn’t that automatically mean it is?
““No trucks on EC Row” was the battle cry. There’ll be little else with the cargo dream and Lauzon extension to the 401. Sell out.”
I seem to remember that being a HUGE sticking point as well, now their touting it as a good thing?
I guess its how you define victory.
The fact was that many of us did not like the rhetoric surrounding greenlink, many of us did not like the negativity and the constant threat of legal action or delayed shovels in the ground.
Obviously it was not a victory for greenlink, it was a victory for what many Windsoites wanted in the first place. A resolution to this conflict that saw Windsor get the most it could
Litmust test
a critical indication of future success or failure
This is a critical indication of the Mayor’s future success in a reelection campaign.
So I guess it is a litmus test of that. BTW, that does not mean I’m necessarily a supporter, again, only the messenger of what I observe and how I interpret.
Actually it was no expansion of ec Rowe until dric road done
Gord Henderson, 23 Sept 2008.
“In April 2005, Premier Dalton McGuinty ignited more rage and defiance when he announced action on the “nine-point plan” which would have placed tens of thousands of international trucks on E.C. Row and a Lauzon Parkway extension to Highway 401.
Thankfully, it got stopped in its tracks by Windsor.”
Eddie Francis during an AM800 interview,
“It does not make sense to introduce 30,000 trucks onto EC Row. There is a move afoot to connect Manning Road to the 401. Some would like to connect Lauzon Parkway to the 401. You will recall that’s been the cornerstone of the Government’s plan for some time. Over the past several years, the City of Windsor, this Region, has stood up and said we do not want trucks on EC Row. EC Row is at capacity for local commuters and regional commuters. EC Row should remain a local community road.”
Only in Windsor would an expressway be treated as a “local community road”.
And a local community road, like Riverside Drive is an expressway!
This internet-thing is going to bite some politicians on the behind this election
Not too mention that I have yet to see a convincing business case for air cargo hub. Tonnage is way down in this industry, (most likely due to sluggish U.S economy) and there is a dirth of players within relatively close proximity. What is obvioius is that any business an air cargo hub would have, would have to be stolen from and existing facility, either Canadian or in the U.S. Windsor Airport would have to force it’s way into the industry. This project will take considerable resources and capital expenditures. I suppose the idea is that a private company would partner with the airport. I still believe this project like the canal project has the potential to be a gigantic money vacuum with little return. I’ll continue to keep an open mind, because of our desperate need for meaningful economic development, but extensive scrutiny is warranted due to the very permanent changes to our city that both these projects would require.
I would also like to thank the admins of this site and forum, as well as contributors. This type of meaningful discourse is exactly what we need. It’s great to see divergent opinions discussed in respectful manner. It’s also encouraging to see you folks take such a great interest in local politics.
Sorry, one more important point. Although I have declared my candidacy I willl not be on your forum to troll for votes. I do however, hope you will allow me to continue to take part in the discussions. Whether I win or lose, I believe it’s vitally important that we ALL keep talking.
Thanks!
I think its an open forum and wouldn’t call a candidate stating their opinions “trolling”. I’d call it bold and forthcoming. Many candidates are advised by consultants to not state detailed views so that they don’t alienate anyone.
Makes ‘em look wishy washy as far as Im concerned
Jody, I assume it was you were in a Windsor Star Cupe picture so good luck not getting pidgeon holed into a single issue. Sucks this election will likely only be about that
I don’t know about the Airport so will not opine. The Canal plan is about far more than the Canal itself. Transient Marina (if I had it my way a ferry dock) and what needs to be done to prepare the area for revitalization.
I’ve come to the opinion that the Canal itself is simply getting way to far ahead of ourselves and that we should work on the items that would lead up to it or any other feature or tenant to be successful.
Stuff like dealing with crime across Wyandotte from City Center West. Implementing a housing intensification plan. Rezoning Massage parlors out of the area, signage standards that are above the rest of the city.
So much to do without having to invest bazillions yet
The election will only be about CUPE as far as the Windsor Star and Eddie would like it to be. There are many issues facing the city including the past performance of the mayor and council. It is everyone’s responsibility to remind all involved that the myriad of issues deserve our attention during the campaign and beyond and that no one receives a free ride on any single factor.
If I didn’t know you better Mark, I would thin you were trying to Vander Doelen the candidate. I’m sure Jody is well versed in what faces Windsor on the macro and micro level. No one will be pidgeon-holed into a single issue if we all don’t perpetuate an out-dated and distructive approach to campaigning in this city.
He he he he…Vander Doelen has become a verb. What definition would you assign to it, LOS?
Vander Doelen, (old Dutch), verb: 1) The act of forcing your opinion on others, or other’s opinions on still other people, 2) the passing off of mindless drivel as journalism.
Vanderdolen - verb - to vanderdolen
1. The act of directing a persons attention past the value and contribution of a person, entity or issue by pointing out some niggling factoid, out of context, that erodes validity or promotes an unrelated agenda while undermining the position of the primary subject.
2. Introducing conflict to an otherwise pleasant situation.
syn. backhanded compliment
First blush - thoughts?
You’ve obviously put more thought into it than I have. LOL
Nah, but they need to know what they’re gonna face and devise a strategy to deal with it. Trust me, I will not be responsible for labeling anyone, it will come. If I can find it in 2 minutes, so will the star
I agree with you, it is not fair, but I’d like to see the polling numbers for how high the electorate puts value on that issue. I’ll betcha its in the top 3 if not Top 1
Actually it’d be nice for some transparancy for all the candidates to see polling numbers on how the issues rank in voter priority.
LOS, you’ll see me all over the place soley because I speak my thoughts as I get them. As Mr. Schnurr will point out, I’ll often even contradict myself as I go through the thought process to come to a position. Thats why I love this blog, it gives you a chance to explore all premises. I don’t come here with my mind made up on many things
The fact that I may be pigeon-holed is something I can live with, and to a certain extent expect. I hope the media will at least be democratic enough to allow me to respond to whatever is written about me.
I intend to do my campaigning face to face with the folks in my Ward. I’ll do my consulting on the doorstep with a handshake and conversation.
As for the airport and canal, I’ll remain open-minded. I don’t think there is any potential opportunity to move this city forward that isn’t worth looking at, considering the fact that we remain plagued by unemployment and antiquated infrastructure. I am reluctant however, to get into the “build it, and they will come” methodology of public policy. I’ll never close that door completely, but you’ll have to show me a rock solid business case before I’m willing to vote in favour of something that requires huge outlay of public cash. We’ve seen that game go south on us before.
I think it’s important to note that although many will paint the much debated “sweetening of the pot” by Queen’s Park as a victory, we should keep in mind that it’s still our money. Whether it comes from Windsor, Toronto, or Ottawa, there is only one taxpayer. We should be particularly muted in our celebrations given the current financial situation our province is facing. Our politicians shouldn’t be falling over each other for congratulatory photo ops. They should humbly apologize for this ridiculous exercise in self-promotion. They should stop feeding lawyers and start feeding construction workers.
An aside to Mark. We share a mutual friend or two and I hear nothing but good things about you. I respect the fact that you and other posters here care enough about Windsor to inform yourselves and in the process inform me. We may disagree on some points, but that is precisely what we need. Respectful dialogue among people with divergent opinons and interests provides the balance of real democracy.
Thanks!
“Interesting to see how the “mayor haters” will spin this into a negative?”
Is it “negotiating, baby!” to exploit residents fear of cancer and lung disease using millions of municipal taxpayer funds on an ad campaign to prop up your own image, knowing full well when push comes to shove you’ll take what they give you?
The border announcement being spun as a victory for the Mayor is the most ludicrous thing yet in a process that has scraped the idiocy barrel clean. Mark, if you were truly informed about the border wars, you would be ashamed of yourself for blowing more smoke on behalf of Eddie.
Everywhere I read your posts you are always qualifying that you are not necessarily a “supporter” of Eddie. You doth protest too much.
I hope he does get re-elected, if only to give some enterprising journalist a chance to dig a little deeper and reveal the true story.
The smell of corruption around this guy is unmistakable.
“truly informed about the border wars”?
From who? The uniblogger? The ABC?
Who are these truth tellers u speak of?
Or are u confusing the third crossing debate with the dric road vs greenlink debate. Tell me, were u that big of a greenlink supporter before and are disappointed. Or are you simply opposed to the mayors negotiating style. Personally, I don’t agree with his negotiating style which is why I see the end if the negotiations a major victory
“give some enterprising journalist a chance to dig a little deeper and reveal the true story.”
what u figure 7 years isn’t enough time? Sorry Charlie, if they haven’t found anything yet, it’s doubtful anything will be found other than innuendo
Yes, I get most of my info from the uniblogger and the ABC.
And I was a big greenlink supporter (the same way I support unicorns).
You seem to see things in black and white. Anyone who thinks the mayor’s “victory” is a sham must therefore be an ABC supporter or Arditti-ite?
I was neck deep in the border thing for two years. I spent hundreds of hours in meetings with major players and toured suggested routes with MP’s, MPP’s, Ministers and the US Consul general. I have a pretty complete understanding of the recent context and the history going back 30 years or more.
I’m not confusing anything, but your logic is a little shaky. The reason WHY you see it as a “major victory” is because you “don’t agree with his negotiation style”? I’m really confused by what you mean there.
You had low expectations and are surprised? I don’t get it.
And what ‘negotiating style” is that exactly? Adversarial? Mendacious? Megalomaniacal? PR driven? Excluding the citizens and administration and frequently the rest of council?
I’m sure we could share an ice tea and agree on a lot of things. The mayor will probably never be one of them.
He is your mayor, I am grateful I do not pay taxes in Windsor.
A national survey found your municipal governance to be among the very worst in the country. Yet your Mayor is one of the two highest paid in the province.
And No Way, Jose, do I believe just because the Star hasn’t dug up anything it means the mayor is squeaky clean. Where there is smoke there’s fire. And the truth always outs. Wether you’ll ever see that truth in the Star is another matter entirely.
From my perspective, the only “major victory” the Mayor has had in his 7 years is his ongoing victory in getting the two biggest local media outlets to be his assistant spin doctors. We get a lot of premium Eddie-talk, and no accountability to what he said last month or last year. The coverage of the province’s announcement was a good example of that.
I don’t think its the mayor’s victory, I think the end of the DRIC border road file is a major victory for Windsorites. I, for one, never bought the fact that we wanted from the Province a standard of road so high, when our own standard for an expressway was, oh, so low.
Since you didn’t support greenlink, how could the failure to achieve more tunneling, be a problem for you?
And yes, since the star, CUPE, the ABC and the mayor’s many well researched and well funded enemies have not been able to unearth “anything” in 7 years, I do not believe the 8th or 9th year “will be the charm”. Its kinda ridiculiculous to think it would.
But when it comes to the negotiating style, I said I longed for the Tim Hortons meetings that brought the college campus downtown “A MAJOR VICTORY” or the tenacious effort that brought the Red Bull Races back when Detroit pissed them off “A MAJOR VICTORY”.
Oh, and BTW, I never said that an absence of evidence meant someone is squeaky clean, only that the likelihood of that evidence appearing in the future is infinitesimal
I never said the failure to achieve more tunneling was a problem for me.
What is a problem for me is the mayor exploiting residents fears, the empty posturing and threats he has made over the last 5 years, the way he has hid details of the City’s border plans (Schwartz, Greenlink) from citizens using solicitor-client privilege between Estrin and whatever consultants Estrin hires. The way he has chased the best and brightest in the City’s administration out the door, the way he leaves council in the dark on major decisions. The way he collects a salary higher than that of mayors of much larger and more successfully run cities. The way he floats pie in the sky ideas while core municipal services are neglected. Canal? Anyone remember “Rails to Trails”? What is a problem for me is that the mayor is exclusively concerned with PR and appearances and has zero accountability.
You say “The ends justify the means” I think that is dangerous thinking in any situation.
Finally, if you think the rather desperate announcement (notice how nervous and tense and non-celebratory Dwight, Sandra and Eddie looked) is the END of the process, you are dreaming. The fat lady has not sung. This is one more in a long string of declared “victories” that is completely premature.
“What is a problem for me is the mayor exploiting residents fears, the empty posturing and threats he has made over the last 5 years…”
Especially since we know from Gord Henderson that Dwight, Sandra, and Eddie broke quiche one morning and burried the hatchet. The last two years have been a sham, a lie, a deception of the citizens. An emptying of the city coffers on lawyers and consultants, postering and empty threats, all for a show, when they knew full well that there was going to be an agreement according to their time frame.
As far as dirt on the mayor. I really don’t think that the Star and CKLW are actively searching for anything and probably wouldn’t report it if they knew it. To say that the mainstream media hasn’t found anything is misleading. You know full well that the pipeline between the mayor’s office and the Star’s editorial boardroom spin stories and twist facts to place the mayor in the most favourable light. If they can’t achieve that they simply don’t report the story, ergo it never happened.