I’ll believe it, when…
Anyone who knows me will vouch for the fact that I love this city and try to keep as optimistic an attitude as I can when it comes to our communities prognosis. Yet, I cannot help but feel we’ve been taken for a ride yet one more time.
I’ll believe that this Mayor and administration can pull off the canal plan, when…
…when these water features, in Windsor’s much-ballyhooed Odette Sculpture Garden, on the ever-revered Riverfront, are actually operating! Oh yeah, and as soon as the renowned Charley Brooks Memorial Peace Fountain stops being the first thing threatened at budget time every year (and please do not blame the city strike this time. The fountain is the perennial red-shirt-wearing member of the away party once a year at budget time) citing it’s $118,000 anual maintenance cost, I will believe we can pull off the canal project.
I’m just trying to be realistic here, folks. It’s going to take a ton of work to get this council past the pretty pictures they can show off to their out-of-town colleagues and get a shovel in the ground. Once we’ve worn ourselves out with the struggle to get it built, we will be struggling to maintain this beast and see clean water circulating in it year-round.
I hope everyone is well rested, because it will be up to you to get this thing built and maintained!
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It bugs me to no end that the City of Windsor spent millions of dollars and decades developing one the biggest riverfront parks in North America only to turn around and approve a funding request for a NEW water feature in the form of a canal.
Does that mean that Riverfront is passe now?
chris we must be psychic friends. I was running around town today and kept thinking i needed to start taking pictures of all the things that get added to this city but never get maintained. i really would love to believe a canal is going to save this city but it is so hard to do. it’s disappointing to see the number of trees and landscaping that go in to beautify our city only to die months later because there are no funds to water them (ahem…dougall avenue, the airport “gateway”, etc. etc.) i love this city and think we are better than this. the peace beacon gets put on the chopping block every single year for the same reason….no money to fudn it, no staff to maintain it. we have the ultimate canel at our feet…the detroit river. all we need to do is look at what detroit has done/is doing with their riverfront to realize we have a goldmine that already exists. we don’t need a canal to save this city. just proper leadership.
That’s why I love the camera on my cell phone, PC. I took these on my walk to the University this morning. I’m never far from gathering photographic evidence of some sort!
hah same thing with me, PC. I was at the Albert Weeks fountain yesterday, wondering why it was on, was thinking the EXACT same thing as you two about getting pictures of the neglect.
meant to say the peace fountain..not the peace beacon (that’s another issue
I love this city too, but sometimes I think what we really need in the downtown is a giant, inflatable White Elephant. We could blow it up at night and illuminate it with Casino spotlights each time the Mayor gets a brilliant new idea.
You’ve got the basic problem covered though. We need to fix what we have before building new stuff to neglect. The Canal vision is shiny and pretty but the reality of the work needed to pull it off & keep it running is terrifying. It could be very cool if it’s done right, but our track record so far is not good.
Exactly what I was thinking Chris. Our current fountains are not even operational, and the Peace Fountain budget copout is just disgusting. Charles Brooks would be rolling in his grave.
We build it but not maintain it. We build it and nobody comes! We build again and still nobody comes! The history of Windsor.
I’m willing to make a friendly bet with anyone that the branding and goodwill value of a “green” canal will more than offset the maintenance costs.
Chris, we need to look to offset the costs not necessarily fear them. By branding the canal and the city “green” we create value and likely more than offset the maintenance costs.
I hope the business plan will look into this opportunity.
Edwin, can you please explain to me what you mean by ‘green’?. I fail to see even one aspect of the Canal proposal that is actually ‘green’ as the damages to the local environment far outweigh any ‘green’ savings that can be attained by the development of a canal.
If it is going to move forward, the only thing that can be done now is doing it properly.
As Edwin mentioned, making the entire canal district a green district is perfect. Is there any way to enforce that all development surrouding the canal is LEED certified? geothermal heating, rain water collection, green roofing, solar power, etc.
I believe by connecting the riverfront to downtown, that by adding a 500-1000 (or whatever the projection is) new residents adjacent to our riverfront you will see it maintained better, used more and reach its full potential
The Canal supports the Riverfront, it doesn’t replace it. But hey, thats just my opinion
What type of plan is that Mark? As a business person, would you throw money behind a plan without knowing the operating costs? I think the canal could be a fantastic project for the downtown — I really do — but (and there is always a but) if it cannot be self-sustaining and/or have guaranteed maintenance funding, then the project is DOA.
(BTW: If the reality facing many US states and cities regarding budget shortfalls is any indication, the ONLY option for the canal project would be a self-sufficient enterprise. Depending on tax-base increases in the downtown is the same failed logic that brought us suburban sprawl. That Ponzi scheme only works in the short-term, but has no sustainability. Scary thought, isn’t it?)
Josh, the savings from the shift in policy from sprawl to smart growth alone is in the tens of millions annually.
Understanding Smart Growth Savings
http://www.vtpi.org/sg_save.pdf
I must say, I’m dumbfounded by the resistance to the canal from SDers. Either we don’t understand what a seminal moment this is - Windsor is abandoning its sprawl philosophy. Or we don’t really believe the stuff we preach. Or we are so jaded that it is too late.
If a canal and 16 million dollars is the cost for changing the sprawl philosophy of The City of Windsor for the next 20 years at least, than I’ll dig the darn thing my self and organize bake sales and other fundraisers to raise the money too.
Seminal Policy Shift
From:
Windsor Canal Project Business Case
4.5 Windsor Essex Real Estate Market
Residential Market
Policy shift:
This projected surge in demand for higher density residential units represents an opportunity for increased residential development in downtown Windsor and particularly in the vicinity of the canal.
Retail Market
policy shift:
The recommendations in this report point very strongly to a need to redirect a portion of future commercial growth to the downtown and community main streets. If the downtown is to revitalize, peripheral commercial development must be controlled and should be tied to future population increases. Coupled with this, the City must also invest and provide incentives for future commercial growth to be attracted to the core. The canal represents an excellent and creative example of this type of investment.
Office Market
Policy shift:
While office space is not anticipated to be the most predominantl and use in the canal district, the canal does present an opportunity for niche businesses, looking for a unique location in keeping with their corporate image. The drive-in restaurant Sonic head office on the Bricktown Canal in Indianapolis is an example of this type of business. Similarly, offices above retail shops would also be viable for small businesses seeking an alternative to suburban business parks and downtown high-rises.
I’ll buy a cupcake or two, Edwin. I think the one thing that may help see the potential of this project is to see what some of the developers in ‘the know’ are planning on doing. Perhaps if there were commitments from some of them to build aesthetically pleasing and functional buildings that would serve as a model for future buildings, this project would be an easier sell on the population. Personally, I’d like to see building standards in place, in both energy efficiency, and in appearance. But, without knowing exactly what will happen, does make me worry. Some of the builders have created some ugly buildings around town. Would be nice if they would just do it right, and not do it cheap.
I don’t believe (and I’m speaking personlly right now) that there are too many SDers who oppose the contents and rationale of the plan in and of itself, Edwin. I believe whatever opposition that has been expressed has been focused on the process (if you can call it that) that this administration has utilized to get us to this point.
I must admit that my bias (and time constraints) have kept me from delving too deeply into the content of the proposal. What you have written is indeed compelling and should be be celebrated as an admission that the status quo is a bad thing and our planning priorities must change. However, we have heard this before as well (see the Inter-Municipal Planning Coordination Committee’s (IMPCC) “Healthy Places, Healthy People” document that the city signed onto. Watch this video for the planning department’s council presentation.). They continued to approve and build sprawl development after that exercise, so I don’t have much faith in this administration’s ability to remember too much.
I feel insulted, actually, by this mayor and his actions. All citizens should, as his actions have told us that we’re either A/ too dumb to understand what is going on, or B/ a hindrance to his grand schemes. Neither one sits well with me, and I find it difficult to see beyond those insults of his.
I am trying my best to see the plan for what it is, and judge it solely on its merits, but Francis’ face keeps on poking into my conscience - and he is laughing at me.
None of those fountains are working right now because of the city hall strike. The same with the Peace Fountain. If the city used replacement workers many people would be up in arms. Just like the people who bitch about the grass right now. Don’t like it? Then be like the guy in the Star yesterday and cut it.
I get the gist of what people are saying. Windsor doesn’t maintain things well. But I say lets force them to do it!
From what I understand the canal proposal does have LEED initiatives. I hope they can make it as green as possible.
Mark Bradley, because everything they have built has been the silver bullet instead of leveraging existing items. This does just that leverages the waterfront which is greatly used.
Sheesh! What did I say about using the strike as an excuse?
These fountains are rarely working, Dave. You know that! I didn’t even know the penguin sculpture was supposed to be have a water feature until a friend told me, that is how often it is working! The Peace Fountain is regularly on the budget-cut list because of the expense of installation and maintenance. Need I repeat the entire post?
I know you are the new citizen “face man” for the canal proposal (saw you on TV yet again last night) but you cannot discount the way this city is run under our current administration.
I just want people to take off the rose coloured glasses. By highlighting stuff like this we will get one step closer to a successful product, if and when they do build the canal. By keeping our heads in the sand we’ll wind up with more of the same!
I’m at the point that Adriano is at right now: if the decision has been made to build this money-pit, let’s make it the best it can be. I don’t want to be viewed as an impediment to “progress”, yet I fully intend on being very critical of it and it’s dogmatic believers. “Hope” has no place in discussing the details of this project! Can you really “force” them to do anything? If you can, why haven’t you done it yet?
If it’s not in writing (”green” aspects, LEED certs, planned cohesiveness w/our existing downtown) it will not be part of the plan. Period!
Dave those fountains haven’t been working since before strike. Actually some of them since last year. Citing the strike is a poor excuse.
I had a long conversation yesterday with a recent aquaintance where we dicussed at length essentially the main points brought up in this post.
Contrary to what is said, like Greenlink, I thought the canal is a wonderful concept.
The problem, is a good part process and that the process as it has unfolded has been tainted by politics. (Not withstanding the unanswered questions to date and the very weak business case - if you can call it that).
I read an article in Brookings regarding downtown revitalization that (I’m going by memory here) with downtown revitalization plans, the politicans need to step back.
What we’ve seen with the canal proposal - at both the municipal and federal level - is backroom dealing, with-held information and unanswered questions with promises of a more “detailed” business study at some point in the future.
If the canal is a serious proposition - the community ought to have been involved from the get-go. And when I say community I mean ALL stakeholders.
Efforts by some commentators on here to organize a design charette for the core are such an example of this - and that’s GREAT.
You want buy in.
If the public is involved in the process from the beginning - concept, designs, etc. they will have an interest in seeing it move forward. Questions as they arise can be answered. Costs secured, and the like.
Not this top-down approach that is becoming customary at city hall.
Then the final package can be presented with a team of residents, and other stakeholders to the community at-large to gather additional feedback.
THEN the proposal could be presented to council whose job is determine how and if it can be financed etc.
This isn’t rocket science. The city did this with the City Centre West CIP, Sandwich CIP - that have gone no-where for unknown reasons.
The City Centre West lands - I agree - there’s no quick fix.
Despite having incentives on the books, nothing has happened.
Despite a developer being given free riverfront property (in conjunction with the incentives on the table) - nothing has happened - right next to an Art Gallery, riverwalk across the street, and a stones throw from a convention centre, concert hall and casino; quick access to transit and relatively close to libraries and medical facilities.
Building a canal - by the study teams own acknowledgement is NOT a quick fix - and requires more than a canal.
I’m with Chris on this - I believe the city has been taken for a ride - again.
Invest in what we have.
Make it the best it can be; while at the same time chart a path to the future to build upon this solid foundation which could include a canal or other attraction.
As I’ve always written, do it right or don’t do it at all.
All very Good points Chris S/Mr. Schnurr and excellently articulated
Now that funding is applied for we have a chance to adress them
Without the chance of funding thee was no chance
Dave, using the strike as an excuse as to why these water features are not working is a joke of an excuse. These fountains/water features have not been working for years….yes, thats pluralized. years.
Moving forward on a project that will saddle taxpayers with yearly maintenance costs for life when the city cannot even maintain what is has is ridiculous. Added to that, people are being fooled by smoke are mirrors as they look at these artist renderings and think thats what it will look like. As you stated yourself in previous posts, only the canal is being built, then we have to wait and see if any investors are willing to build along its banks. Sounds like a certain building that was built along the riverfront…if you build it, tenants and retail will fill it up. Remind me, how has that project turned out again?
If someone can help answer this one for me I would also appreciate it. Aside for the farhi land (and don’t get me started on that one), if the remainder of the land is city owned, how is it going to be decided which developer builds on it?
Aside for the farhi land (and don’t get me started on that one), if the remainder of the land is city owned, how is it going to be decided which developer builds on it?
You know exactly how they’ll be divided up, Adriano, and it will be no-bid and all happen in-camera, citing privacy concerns. Boondoggle and greased-palms in the making, that’s what that is!
Hey man, if you don’t like the way the mayor or city council runs things, then you have to step up to the plate and get rid of them next election. Granted, it will probably take a lot of cash$$$ to pay for lawn signs and advertising.
I always thought the rule of thumb was “He who has the most lawn signs wins”. Chris, I remember when you ran for the green party, is this true?
It helps, but you need to have quite a bit more to your campaign than just signs. It sure doesn’t hurt, though SBW
I am sure I’m not the only one here who will say this; Chris I would definately volunteer all I could to help your campaign. Time to register the domain ChrisHolt2010.com man =P
Tim — careful what you wish for. I helped Chris on one of his campaigns years ago — and he STILL can’t get rid of me — and I moved 2100 kms away!
I’ve often thought that open and transparent discussions with citizens would be a perfect platform to run on. No political experience? Of course not — isn’t that the problem anyway; career politicians who are tainted?
Chris Holt 2010! I like the sound of that!
Hey, where’s my Chris Holt 2010 lawn sign?
“I must say, I’m dumbfounded by the resistance to the canal from SDers. Either we don’t understand what a seminal moment this is - Windsor is abandoning its sprawl philosophy. Or we don’t really believe the stuff we preach. Or we are so jaded that it is too late.”
Edwin, I don’t know if I speak for the majority, but the recent history of city sponsored ‘mega-projects’ like the Casino and the Canderel building -at best did not have the anticipated and promised results, and at worst exacerbated the problem of the hollowing out of the core. This project has the same stink about it. Couple that with the shady manner in which information about the project has been disseminated, and the vague assumptions and hopeful projections by its proponents, this has all the makings of a disaster.
I’m not saying its a bad idea, but it has been mishandled from day one, and following through with it is more dangerous than taking a pass for the time being.
There is lower hanging fruit with more benefit and far less cost available. The city should not be in the development game, they should facilitate development by private enterprise by lowering their fees, reducing tax rates in designated improvement zones and assisting the police department in implementing all of the recommendations that countless paid consultants have provided for policing and law enforcement in the downtown area.
It’s not as sexy as a canal, but implementation and adherence to these guidelines will have more effect than any soon to be abandoned canal will ever have.
Once this is in place, revisit the canal plan, but get the patient off of life support before you give her a boob job.
“… but get the patient off of life support before you give her a boob job”
HAHAHA!
That is one of the most excellent and appropriate analogies I’ve heard yet, Mike!!!!!
MikeD2G, this is not a mega-project. This is simply an infrastructure project and a change in policy to encourage urban renewal, plain and simple. The other benefits like increasing tourism, a wonderful public space for the rest of us to enjoy, opportunities to leverage it as a symbol for the city, etc. etc. is simply icing on the cake.
To me getting city hall to change its policy on sprawl is the end game. The canal aligns the interests of city hall with smart growth policies. That is my goal. The whole kit and caboodle! The entire enchilada! The whole point of the shooting match! The entire ball of wax! The whole shebang!
In my opinion, arguing that we should take small steps towards this goal is status quo lite. Please understand, only my opinion.
Chris S. no developers were willing to build on the CCW lands because there was nothing to attract new residents there. We can all demand “spruce up downtown” which we have done in some way or another about 6 times in 25 years. There are even facade grants yet few have taken advantage of it. Has this improved downtown? Nope! Has it brought residents to live? Nope.
So what will? We have tried the above and still no results.
Chris Holt. I am not using the excuse just stating the strike does play a role. I agree (I too forgot about the water in the Penguin sculpture) this city isn’t run well but I wonder why? It isn’t just the mayor to be blamed on this one as this city hasn’t been run well since I can remember. Talking with Don Sadler the Peace Fountain has dated tehnology which is difficult to integrate today. Because of the design of having to pull it out of the water and back in again each year the maintainence costs are higher than a fountain that stays put.
I know I am using one on one examples and I certainly don’t disagree this city is not run well. But I am wondering, and this is just speculation on my part. If the 60% of the city’s budget that goes to wages and benefits isn’t hampering the ability to run this city well? It can’t just be the cost of lawyers and consultants. With our high property taxes we should be getting a bigger bang for our buck. Are the Managers at city hall that inept? I do realize there is a lot of favouritism there (as in every business in existence) and there are way too many managers for the amount of workers in many departments but what is the cause?
I could really care who builds the damn buildings as long as they are following the guidelines and aren’t turds to look at. Yes the process has stunk from the beginning but that doesn’t mean we should ignore it now. There have been questions asked about LEED designs and the statement from the consultants were yes! The design and power consumptions has green initiatives. It is now up to us to ake sure the best alternatives are instilled in the process. Or we can take our marbles and go home. The choice is ours.