Downtown Assault was different
Well, here we go again. Its so darn easy to simply condemn the Downtown because of the latest assault but what about some examination of the situation. When there was a 5th shooting on Pelissier, no one did more than I did to try to effect cha
nge. I didnt realize that the 6th shooting was the charm when it comes to getting action.
But this time is different, very different
Some comments from the Windsor Star and the facts. (I’m paraphrasing cause I just don’t have the time to be exact)
1. Those Darn Americans
FACT: It was two Citizens of Canada who were charged
2. That Bar has underage people in it
FACT: the two charged were of age
3. Its the 19 year old Drink Limit
FACT: The two people charged were in their 20’s
4. Too much drunkenness downtown
FACT: Police said alcohol wasn’t a factor
5. This only happens downtown
FACT: When entertainment lounges are only allowed to be downtown due to zoning laws, where the heck else would these things happen?
6. Downtown should not have bars (or less bars)
FACT: All downtowns have a entertainment component or district. Please, someone, tell me a thriving downtown that doesn’t have an entertainment component or district? Yes we need more balance, but the balance comes from adding more of the other components, not closing down your hospitality industry.
How about asking questions before we rush to judgement.
1. What caused this assault?
Look at all the factors, why did the two people charged have no fixed address? Were they predisposed to violence because of their situation? Homeless? Jobless? Any involvement in the Drug trade? were they panhandling?
I’m not saying that these factors must play a part and know its very stereotypical, but we have to ask the question. Windsor’s economy is the worst its ever been, thousands of Windsorites have been on strike for months which affects their entire families. I’ve noticed people being more aggressive at my establishments.
2. What changes could have been made that would have prevented this assault.
Before we start blaming individual bar owners we need to know if anything they did contributed. From the surface of this situation, I’d have to say no. However, witness statements would help. Are assaults and other offences in the vicinity of this particular bar higher than average? Would additional security presence have deterred the assault? Would more beat patrol officers have deterred the assault? Would a policy of voluntarily staggering bar closings or downtown crowd dispersal techniques have helped?
I don’t know the answers to these questions but they’re the ones that need to be asked
Fortunately, Windsor now has a body that can ask those questions and research possible solutions
Windsor has just formed a Hospitality Resource Panel and it needs our support more than ever
look at the resources that are out there to deal with this
One website is http://www.sociablecity.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=81558&orgId=rhi
Not only do they have weibinars, they have a ton of resources such as case studies.
See, we think we have the only problem, we are far from being alone. Look at what other cities have to deal with http://www.sociablecity.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=84601&orgId=rhi
We can’t just piss away these hospitality jobs, they’re some of the few we have left and without them we will simply bleed more young people as well as artists who use them to survive in Windsor. We need to manage them responsibly so that we can Live with each other in a way that keeps people living in and moving into DOwntown. Am I saying we should do nothing, of course not, I’ve detailed the questions we need to ask and some possible alternatives. Simply saying shut it down is the easy, lazy way out. How about some of that good old fashioned rolling up of the sleeves and getting to work solving the problem. We have an automotive base here, how about some root cause analysis with short term and long term corrective action.
We need to figure this out if we’re going to try to lure retailers and investors without sacrificing the one industry that is holding on and supplying the jobs we need to transition our economy.
Look at this one conference alone!
Harness Nightlife as an Economic Engine in Austin, TX
Austin, Texas, the ‘Live Music Capital of the World,’ will set the stage for RHI’s Networking Conference November 12-14, 2009 to showcase successful strategies and practical tools for the nighttime economy.
Top 5 Reasons to Attend:
1) Witness best practices in action with a late-night tour of Austin’s 6th Street.
2) Network with hospitality zone peers from dozens of North American cities.
3) Tools to manage noise, fights, closing time crowds and impaired driving challenges.
4) Learn what it takes to be a successful music city.
5) Tips on how to build alliances in your community to develop a common vision for nightlife.
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good, clear insight Mark. well put. stifling or choking the only thing thats surviving downtown never made sense to me.
Oh, as an aside, When I mention panhandling as a question, I am not against panhandling but wish the times and places were regulated. I’ve written the city twice to ask council review but can’t even get this on councils agenda to make a presentation
You should not be allowed to panhandle outside an ATM, over a patio railing or after 11pm. All of those places and times are inappropriate and even if the panhandler was nice as pie it is very intimidating and aggressive.
But unless we know the details of this case, that is another conversation
Good points, but I guess this is a ‘chicken and the egg’ scenario. How do we get to where we want without destroy what is seemingly working?
When I was downtown Friday night (10pm) with my family (2 and 4 year olds) having a late dinner, when we came out of the Basil Court, there were so many drunk out of control youth swearing, pushing people around, and making seemingly joking threats towards me and my children, that I can’t see bringing my family down there ever again (but I will). When I was a child, downtown was for us, citizens of Windsor, and we never felt intimidated or scared.
If it wasn’t for the amazing restaurants downtown, there really is no reason why people with families would ever go down there. The ‘entertainment’ district is not very entertaining for Windsorites who don’t want to get drunk and get in a fight (besides the small “Windsor” area around Phog, Loop, Fishmarket area - oh, and we used to have the Canderil block as well).
Don’t get me wrong, I love downtown and want to see it as a place for us, the home market that is just waiting to be tapped into. We don’t have to rely on drunk kids to sustain downtown. We have to start the transition to a downtown that is home based and entertains people from Windsor from the morning to night. If you look at successful tourist cities, the downtown cores are vibrants centres for the people of the city, have historical architecture intact and are hubs of family activities (not necessarily big one time events once a year).
No one wants to see any small business owner fail, but some of these owners are going to have to take the initiative to start the transition or things will only get worse and worse. The good thing is that there seems to be a growing movement of small business owners interlinked with the progessives who have a long term sustainable vision of Windsor - not just as a tourist attraction, but as a place where people want to live, spend their money, and be active in their community.
Sorry for the long post!!
@ Ron….. when you put the oness on small business owners to make the transition and look long term, that is inherently going to fail. small business owners do not have large cash reserves to help hold on while people decide whether or not they want to come downtown. the oness needs to be on the people. windsorites don’t support their downtown. plain and simple. they go to the mall. they drive out to walker road. they make every excuse in the world to not come downtown. the next thing people will say is that there is no reason to come downtown. well, that again is just nonsense. i don’t have the time or space to write about all the great festivals, theatres, shows etc that are going on day in day out in the core. simple example is this. i take my family to the movies every once and awhile. if i go out to walker road it would cost me roughly $50 for a family of 4 for tickets and popcorn. at the palace downtown it costs me around $24 for the same things. I can now also go out to dinner with them at some amazing restaurants. once people start supporting what is already down there then small businesses will commit there life savings to trying to offer something different and of value for windsorites to enjoy. until then it just makes good business sense to offer something to an already existing market; which at this point in time is the bar scene.
sorry….one other point….. when other businesses come in and start showing promise and evening out the retail sector downtown along side the hospitality sector, the natural laws of nature will fall into place and the new businesses will slowly start putting pressure on the older businesses to tighten up and offer better services. competition, not necessarily in the same sector will be what evens out downtown, not civic regulations.
I agree Rino. That’s why I said its the chicken or the egg scenerio. I don’t mean to put the oness on small business to make the transition entirely, but you have to have things downtown that persuade folks to go downtown instead of the mall and that horrible area out on Walker that shouldn’t have been built in the first place (I didn’t want to say government assistance because every time they get their hands into business ventures, they ultimately fail) - we could all make a long list of things on this matter).
But just putting the oness on people, without doing anything that provides a basis for them to come downtown is seeing the entire problem from one side. The out of control drunk kids and near military presence is something no family wants to witness (and the Palace is the only place I see movies - that doesn’t happen often enough).
The logic of adhereing to market principles has been followed for years in the downtown region, and in my life time I have witnessed the near complete demise of the area. My family, my entire family including my grandparents, all went downtown together every week to go to the market, Kresgies (spelling?) etc… those options are all gone and so are the people (and I know that you support the return of a market and retail as well).
A strong and sustainable downtown is not based on one time events and festivals - those are generally to attract tourists with the hope that they will come back the following year. A real home based downtown is based on retail that can’t be found any where else, on the entire experience of grocery, food, entertainment, and a municipal government that is willing to create incentives for the return of these kinds of businesses as well.
I wish I had an answer on how to spark this transition. But until we figure that out together, I guess we will continue down the path of thinking that we are simply one really big and expensive project away from bringing Windsorites back to their downtown.
What’s interesting is that when you look at the history of downtown, people stopped going when more and more kiddie bars started opening up. Essentially, small business changed the market. Now who is to fix it is the question.
All in all, I think we all agree that the downtown core needs a new direction. Rino, I know that if I could get my mom over her fear of downtown, your soup alone will keep her coming back
One more thing. It wasn’t just small business that changed the market into kiddie bars. I just thought that it goes without saying about how the City torn down vibrant historic sections of downtown to build smaller than projected buildings and parking garages in their place (we all know what I’m talking about, right!).
I think an indoor mall with store front access would be a great attraction - kinda like London’s downtown.
Okay, I’m going to stop now. Oh wait, one more thing. I think we can all feel how Windsor is at a critical point and how we are about to embark on a new and exciting direction. Although, this is only going to happen with people like us at the helm.
Okay, I’m good now!!
realistically we both agree but i think there is also a certain amount of misperception and bias that keeps both people and businesses out of the core. why people continue to go out to walker road instead of downtown for things like movies is one example of people’s bad choices. general public that is. hopefully there is a swing coming and we will see the changes first hand.
The fact that there has been limited discussion means that those “in the know” about what really goes on downtown seem to agree.
The fact is we need to do as much as we can to silence these masochistic Windsorites who want to use any tragedy to reinforce their unfounded beliefs.
You can’t fix the real problems that we have if we don’t accept what they are. We have no problems early in the night, rowdiness issues (hooting and hollering) a bit later and some real clean and safe issues at closing times.
Lets focus on those
Your right Mark. It’s definitely wrong to focus on the negative and always try to place blame on the kids from the US. The downtown bar scene seems to attract a few ‘thugs’ who get all the spotlight. It would be great if the media focused more on all the good stuff (restaurants, festivals, cultural activities etc) instead of the negative stuff. That being said, we must all do something to bring positive attention to the core while also encouraging the building of the small neighbour communities within our city (Pillette place, Riverside, Sandwich, Walkerville, Ottawa st., etc…). I think the days of municipal subsidizing of large industrial parks needs to be refocused to encouraging small business developing to build stronger neighbourhoods that are linked more easily with downtown.
Oh wait, I’m all over the place with this. Sorry!!!!
We should just start holding community discussions on a montly basis to discuss this stuff in person.
Ok Mark,
I’ll bite. We don’t have a “component” or “district”, just like Windsor’s economy with Automotive manufacturing, our downtown is the same with all our downtown eggs, in the “entertainment” basket.
As for you second point, you’re right, since there is no balance that is why our downtown is a failure.
I can’t wait for June 1st. As the passport law comes into effect, and the Americans start to stay away in droves, bars will close. I’m looking forward to it.